|
|
Post by Orangey Popsicle on Jan 18, 2021 19:27:33 GMT
I'm going to talk about some of my thoughts on what would count as a defective Irken, but I'd mostly like to open the floor to everyone else on here because I'm sure that we've all got our own ideas.
In the broadest definition, it is a defective Irken that doesn't fit with the standard, whether it be a faulty pak or an issue that occurred during the cloning process. However, what constitutes as "defective" is based on the ideals of Irken society. For example, an Irken having dwarfism is considered defective, but an Irken with gigantism is not. Some mental illnesses are seen as a "defective trait", but this is based on the Irken's ability to work while having it. I would like to note that many Irkens have a lot of mental health struggles because mental health care in the Irken Empire is nonexistent. There is also the added pressure of the fear of being seen as defective that further exacerbates this.
The term "defective" is also used towards those who want to defect from the empire. Irkens are programmed with loyalty to their empire, so the ability to think critically is a deviation. This label is used to discredit the ideas of Irkens who are opposed to the Irken Empire. In the interesting case of Zim, those with idealized traits that are too strong are considered to be defective as well. The traits I am referring to are the desire to destroy and conquer, and loyalty to the empire. Zim in general is interesting to me in how he feels emotions so strongly. How he'll take a situation and rationalize it in a way that scares himself. How Zim feels that he needs no one, but needs other people to function. Going off topic slightly there, but I love thinking about Zim's personality.
On a related note, I think defectives could be used to say some interesting things about ableism and "invisible" mental health problems. Though the circumstances aren't the same, writers make parallels to the real world in science fiction all of the time. I just wanted to put that out there because I see fanfictions approach defectives from the "rebelling against the empire" angle all of the time. I love a good dystopian story, but it gets exhausting after a while.
|
|
|
|
Post by thehideousnewkids on Jan 19, 2021 22:50:36 GMT
tw: ableism
about the last paragraph - i totally agree. i’ve always seen defectives as (intentionally or not) an allegory for ableism against neurodivergent & mentally ill ppl (especially those with stigmatised disorders such as psychosis, npd and aspd). i think that’s why the show resonates with me. most - if not all - of the main cast are HEAVILY neurodivergent coded or mentally ill coded, and intentional or not, jhonen handled the topic of ableism pretty well.
my headcannon is that there’s a LOT of irkens that classify as defectives because of the way irkens are treated in the empire. however because zim is seen as The Defective of sorts, they don’t want to be lumped in with him or be treated like he was, so they mask how they feel. the issues are still there, but they hide it - even in their thoughts. if they think of something that a ‘defective’ would think, they shut their own thoughts down immediately and carry on as usual. they don’t tell anyone and keep it to themselves, because if anyone else finds out they’ll likely be shunned by society. if there’s something physically wrong with them that would classify them as a defective, they’d try to hide it the best they can, even if it hurts them more in the long run.
i think there’d be certain ‘types’ of defectives to categorise them and why they’re classified as a defective. here’s the ones i’ve thought of so far:
1. pak defective - pretty self explanatory - there’s something wrong with the irken’s pak. since paks are essentially the ‘brain’ of an irken (from my understanding anyway) this is essentially neurodivergent/mentally ill irkens. their paks’s hardware or software is different from the norm and cannot work.
2. body defective - anything to do with the irken’s body. essentially, physical disabilities that mean the irken cannot work.
3. traitorous defective - could tie into pak defective, but probably not always the case. again, this is pretty self explanatory- this is any irken that goes directly against the empire or the empire’s ideals. this could be talking negatively about irken society and the tallest, protesting, thinking critically etc etc, or in extreame cases could be actually fighting against the empire
so in short: the irken empire is super ableist and the control brains and tallest are kinda,,, not good.
i think zim actually falls into all three of these - from what i’ve heard, zim is hard of hearing which is why he shouts so much (though i don’t think he realises it), he’s heavily neurodivergent and mentally ill coded and he’s gone directly against the empire by killing the previous two tallest (among other things)
i kinda went on a rant here but i find all the defective stuff really interesting. i don’t know if any of this makes sense because it’s kinda late here and i’m tired but whatever.
|
|
|
|
Post by Orangey Popsicle on Jan 20, 2021 2:55:57 GMT
tw: ableism about the last paragraph - i totally agree. i’ve always seen defectives as (intentionally or not) an allegory for ableism against neurodivergent & mentally ill ppl (especially those with stigmatised disorders such as psychosis, npd and aspd). i think that’s why the show resonates with me. most - if not all - of the main cast are HEAVILY neurodivergent coded or mentally ill coded, and intentional or not, jhonen handled the topic of ableism pretty well. my headcannon is that there’s a LOT of irkens that classify as defectives because of the way irkens are treated in the empire. however because zim is seen as The Defective of sorts, they don’t want to be lumped in with him or be treated like he was, so they mask how they feel. the issues are still there, but they hide it - even in their thoughts. if they think of something that a ‘defective’ would think, they shut their own thoughts down immediately and carry on as usual. they don’t tell anyone and keep it to themselves, because if anyone else finds out they’ll likely be shunned by society. if there’s something physically wrong with them that would classify them as a defective, they’d try to hide it the best they can, even if it hurts them more in the long run. i think there’d be certain ‘types’ of defectives to categorise them and why they’re classified as a defective. here’s the ones i’ve thought of so far: 1. pak defective - pretty self explanatory - there’s something wrong with the irken’s pak. since paks are essentially the ‘brain’ of an irken (from my understanding anyway) this is essentially neurodivergent/mentally ill irkens. their paks’s hardware or software is different from the norm and cannot work. 2. body defective - anything to do with the irken’s body. essentially, physical disabilities that mean the irken cannot work. 3. traitorous defective - could tie into pak defective, but probably not always the case. again, this is pretty self explanatory- this is any irken that goes directly against the empire or the empire’s ideals. this could be talking negatively about irken society and the tallest, protesting, thinking critically etc etc, or in extreame cases could be actually fighting against the empire so in short: the irken empire is super ableist and the control brains and tallest are kinda,,, not good. i think zim actually falls into all three of these - from what i’ve heard, zim is hard of hearing which is why he shouts so much (though i don’t think he realises it), he’s heavily neurodivergent and mentally ill coded and he’s gone directly against the empire by killing the previous two tallest (among other things) i kinda went on a rant here but i find all the defective stuff really interesting. i don’t know if any of this makes sense because it’s kinda late here and i’m tired but whatever. No, it's ok! I really liked all of this. I especially agree with the first paragraph. I'm neurodivergent, and Invader Zim has been a special interest of mine since I was 10. I think the aspect of the show that I relate to a lot is how the allegory is treated in comparison to other media. The thing about being neurodivergent or mentally ill is that there are people out there who don't want to understand it. Zim's ultimate goal is to be seen and accepted by his people, and he will go to unreasonable lengths to do this. Despite Zim never succeeding, what I love the most about him is that he still carries on in his uniquely "Zim" way and never sees his "defectiveness" as an obstacle. On an unrelated note, my favorite theory for why he's hard of hearing is because of a lab accident back when he was working as a scientist. His times as an Irken Elite also could've resulted in hearing loss. |
|
|
|
Post by BETELGEUSE on Jan 20, 2021 4:16:54 GMT
when you work with people who are yelling all the time and exploding things all the time i could easily see losing your hearing....
|
|
sporesgalaxy
Soldier
online posting is like military combat&im the brave general &ur all the footsoldiers in the tranches
Posts: 185
Pronouns: any
|
Post by sporesgalaxy on Jan 21, 2021 2:50:29 GMT
OH yesss I agree with all of this, I think the ableism reading of defectiveness is by FAR the most interesting!! Hold on, I've babbled about this on my blog sometime before, tho I think I pretty much covered the same thing you guys did...
"I subscribe to the headcanon that “defectiveness” is a made-up label smacked onto anyone deemed detrimental to The Empire in order to get rid of them. While it can be used against neurodivergent Irkens even if they are die-hard patriots (Zim), it is also often used on traitors and the like, or even just well-intentioned but unlucky Irkens who made a disasterous enough mistake to go on trial for it."
Okay, so yeah, same bases vaguely covered, except you guys went way more in depth in a REALLY cool way! I think it may interest you to know that in context, I was talking about every single scientist in a huge, well-funded lab being marked as Defective in order to silence them (and excuse killig them) as part of a cover up for a massive catastrophy the lab accidentally caused during an experiment.
|
|
|
|
Post by Orangey Popsicle on Jan 21, 2021 5:47:11 GMT
Okay, so yeah, same bases vaguely covered, except you guys went way more in depth in a REALLY cool way! I think it may interest you to know that in context, I was talking about every single scientist in a huge, well-funded lab being marked as Defective in order to silence them (and excuse killig them) as part of a cover up for a massive catastrophy the lab accidentally caused during an experiment. I'd really like to see where that post is. That sounds interesting |
|
sporesgalaxy
Soldier
online posting is like military combat&im the brave general &ur all the footsoldiers in the tranches
Posts: 185
Pronouns: any
|
Post by sporesgalaxy on Jan 21, 2021 19:49:38 GMT
Okay, so yeah, same bases vaguely covered, except you guys went way more in depth in a REALLY cool way! I think it may interest you to know that in context, I was talking about every single scientist in a huge, well-funded lab being marked as Defective in order to silence them (and excuse killig them) as part of a cover up for a massive catastrophy the lab accidentally caused during an experiment. I'd really like to see where that post is. That sounds interesting it's from a Half-Life VR AI au, actually gjdhg sporesgalaxy.tumblr.com/post/629521715768279040/are-all-the-irkens-apart-of-the-science-team-plusSadly I don't really do much more to elaborate the context of what the "Resonance Cascade" entails, for someone who's not at least familiar with Half-Life. Honestly, MY knowledge of it is kinda cursory? As far as I know it's the trope of Big Government Funded Science Experiment Goes Awry, Deadly Aliens Show Up, Gov't Decides To Kill All Witnesses To Cover It Up Even Tho That's Ridiculous. General warnings for unethical science, military violence against civilians, and apocalyptic scenarios if you wanna check it out on wikipedia or something for yourself, but I might have some answers if you have any specific questions. |
|
|
|
Post by Orangey Popsicle on Jan 21, 2021 22:27:41 GMT
I'd really like to see where that post is. That sounds interesting it's from a Half-Life VR AI au, actually gjdhg sporesgalaxy.tumblr.com/post/629521715768279040/are-all-the-irkens-apart-of-the-science-team-plusSadly I don't really do much more to elaborate the context of what the "Resonance Cascade" entails, for someone who's not at least familiar with Half-Life. Honestly, MY knowledge of it is kinda cursory? As far as I know it's the trope of Big Government Funded Science Experiment Goes Awry, Deadly Aliens Show Up, Gov't Decides To Kill All Witnesses To Cover It Up Even Tho That's Ridiculous. General warnings for unethical science, military violence against civilians, and apocalyptic scenarios if you wanna check it out on wikipedia or something for yourself, but I might have some answers if you have any specific questions. I like this a lot! Despite there being no evidence, I'm pretty sure that the empire has done something like that before. |
|
? WHEREE ARE YOU PEOPLE....
